Non-experts have high rates of success of lie detection when viewing experts work
Originally published: August 21, 2014
Determining deception is a tool of the trade for law enforcement. The Good Cop/Bad Cop routine is etched in our minds as an effective method of finding out the truth. But prior research has shown that lie detecting is a 50/50 shot for experts and non-experts alike. So what exactly can we do to find out the truth? A recent study published in Human Communication Research by researchers at Korea University, Michigan State University, and Texas State University – San Marcos found that using active questioning of individuals yielded near-perfect results, 97.8%, in detecting deception.
Timothy Levine, Hee Sun Park (University of Korea), David Daniel Clare, Steve McCornack, Kelly Morrison (Michigan State University), and J.Pete Blair (Texas State – San Marcos) published their findings in the journal Human Communication Research. The researchers conducted three studies based on sets of participants who were asked to play a trivia game. Unbeknownst to the participants, a confederate was placed with them offering an incentive and opportunity to cheat at the game, since cash prizes were involved. In the first experiment 12% of the subjects cheated; in the second experiment 44.9% cheated.
An expert using the Reid Technique interrogated participants in the first study, this expert was 100% accurate (33 of 33) in determining who had cheated and who had not. That kind of accuracy has 100 million to one odds. The second group of participants were then interviewed by five US federal agents with substantial polygraph and interrogation expertise. Using a more flexible and free approach (interviews lasted from three minutes to 17 minutes), these experts were able to accurately detect whether or not a participant cheated in 87 of 89 interviews (97.8%). In the third study, non-experts were shown taped interrogations of the experts from the previous two experiments. These non-experts were able to determine deception at a greater-than-chance rate – 79.1% (experiment 1), and 93.6% (experiment 2).
Previous studies with “experts” usually used passive deception detection where they watched videotapes. In the few studies where experts were allowed to question potential liars, either they had to follow questions scripted by researchers (this study had no scripts) or confession seeking was precluded. Previous studies found that accuracy was near chance – just above 50%.
“This research suggests that effective questioning is critical to deception detection,” Levine said. “Asking bad questions can actually make people worse than chance at lie detection, and you can make honest people appear guilty. But, fairly minor changes in the questions can really improve accuracy, even in brief interviews. This has huge implications for intelligence and law enforcement.”
Originally published: August 21, 2014
A centuries-old herbal medicine, discovered by Chinese scientists and used to effectively treat malaria, has been found to potentially aid in the treatment of tuberculosis and may slow the evolution of drug resistance.
In a promising study led by Robert Abramovitch, a Michigan State University microbiologist and TB expert, the ancient remedy artemisinin stopped the ability of TB-causing bacteria, known as Mycobacterium tuberculosis, to become dormant. This stage of the disease often makes the use of antibiotics ineffective.
The study is published in the journal Nature Chemical Biology.
“When TB bacteria are dormant, they become highly tolerant to antibiotics,” Abramovitch said, an assistant professor in the College of Veterinary Medicine. “Blocking dormancy makes the TB bacteria more sensitive to these drugs and could shorten treatment times.”
One-third of the world’s population is infected with TB and the disease killed 1.8 million people in 2015, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Mycobacterium tuberculosis, or Mtb, needs oxygen to thrive in the body. The immune system starves this bacterium of oxygen to control the infection. Abramovitch and his team found that artemisinin attacks a molecule called heme, which is found in the Mtb oxygen sensor. By disrupting this sensor and essentially turning it off, the artemisinin stopped the disease’s ability to sense how much oxygen it was getting.
“When the Mtb is starved of oxygen, it goes into a dormant state, which protects it from the stress of low-oxygen environments,” Abramovitch said. “If Mtb can’t sense low oxygen, then it can’t become dormant and will die.”
Abramovitch indicated that dormant TB can remain inactive for decades in the body. But if the immune system weakens at some point, it can wake back up and spread. Whether it wakes up or stays ‘asleep’ though, he said TB can take up to six months to treat and is one of the main reasons the disease is so difficult to control.
“Patients often don’t stick to the treatment regimen because of the length of time it takes to cure the disease,” he said. “Incomplete therapy plays an important role in the evolution and spread of multi-drug resistant TB strains.”
He said the research could be key to shortening the course of therapy because it can clear out the dormant, hard-to-kill bacteria. This could lead to improving patient outcomes and slowing the evolution of drug-resistant TB.
After screening 540,000 different compounds, Abramovitch also found five other possible chemical inhibitors that target the Mtb oxygen sensor in various ways and could be effective in treatment as well.
“Two billion people worldwide are infected with Mtb,” Abramovitch said. “TB is a global problem that requires new tools to slow its spread and overcome drug resistance. This new method of targeting dormant bacteria is exciting because it shows us a new way to kill it. ”
Learn more: ANCIENT CHINESE MALARIA REMEDY FIGHTS TB
Biologists have discovered that the evolution of a new species can occur rapidly enough for them to observe the process in a simple laboratory flask.
In a month-long experiment using a virus harmless to humans, biologists working at the University of California San Diego and at Michigan State University documented the evolution of a virus into two incipient species—a process known as speciation that Charles Darwin proposed to explain the branching in the tree of life, where one species splits into two distinct species during evolution.
“Many theories have been proposed to explain speciation, and they have been tested through analyzing the characteristics of fossils, genomes, and natural populations of plants and animals,” said Justin Meyer, an assistant professor of biology at UC San Diego and the first author of a study that will be published in the December 9 issue of Science.“However, speciation has been notoriously difficult to thoroughly investigate because it happens too slowly to directly observe. Without direct evidence for speciation, some people have doubted the importance of evolution and Darwin’s theory of natural selection.”
Meyer’s study, which also appeared last week in an early online edition of Science, began while he was a doctoral student at Michigan State University, working in the laboratory of Richard Lenski, a professor of microbial ecology there who pioneered the use of microorganisms to study the dynamics of long-term evolution.
“Even though we set out to study speciation in the lab, I was surprised it happened so fast,” said Lenski, a co-author of the study. “Yet the deeper Justin dug into things—from how the viruses infected different hosts to their DNA sequences—the stronger the evidence became that we really were seeing the early stages of speciation.”
“With these experiments, no one can doubt whether speciation occurs,” Meyer added. “More importantly, we now have an experimental system to test many previously untestable ideas about the process.”
To conduct their experiment, Meyer, Lenski and their colleagues cultured a virus—known as “bacteriophage lambda”—capable of infecting E. coli bacteria using two receptors, molecules on the outside of the cell wall that viruses use to attach themselves and then infect cells.
When the biologists supplied the virus with two types of cells that varied in their receptors, the virus evolved into two new species, one specialized on each receptor type.
“The virus we started the experiment with, the one with the nondiscriminatory appetite, went extinct. During the process of speciation, it was replaced by its more evolved descendants with a more refined palette,” explained Meyer.
Why did the new viruses take over?
“The answer is as simple as the old expression, ‘a jack of all trades is a master of none’,” explained Meyer. “The specialized viruses were much better at infecting through their preferred receptor and blocked their ‘jack of all trades’ ancestor from infecting cells and reproducing. The survival of the fittest led to the emergence of two new specialized viruses.”
The day of charging cellphones with finger swipes and powering Bluetooth headsets simply by walking is now much closer.
Michigan State University engineering researchers have created a new way to harvest energy from human motion, using a film-like device that actually can be folded to create more power. With the low-cost device, known as a nanogenerator, the scientists successfully operated an LCD touch screen, a bank of 20 LED lights and a flexible keyboard, all with a simple touching or pressing motion and without the aid of a battery (click the respective links to see a short video of each demonstration).
The groundbreaking findings, published in the journal Nano Energy, suggest “we’re on the path toward wearable devices powered by human motion,” said Nelson Sepulveda, associate professor of electrical and computer engineering and lead investigator of the project.
“What I foresee, relatively soon, is the capability of not having to charge your cell phone for an entire week, for example, because that energy will be produced by your movement,” said Sepulveda, whose research is funded by the National Science Foundation.
The innovative process starts with a silicone wafer, which is then fabricated with several layers, or thin sheets, of environmentally friendly substances including silver, polyimide and polypropylene ferroelectret. Ions are added so that each layer in the device contains charged particles. Electrical energy is created when the device is compressed by human motion, or mechanical energy.
The completed device is called a biocompatible ferroelectret nanogenerator, or FENG. The device is as thin as a sheet of paper and can be adapted to many applications and sizes. The device used to power the LED lights was palm-sized, for example, while the device used to power the touch screen was as small as a finger.
Advantages such as being lightweight, flexible, biocompatible, scalable, low-cost and robust could make FENG “a promising and alternative method in the field of mechanical-energy harvesting” for many autonomous electronics such as wireless headsets, cell phones and other touch-screen devices, the study says.
Remarkably, the device also becomes more powerful when folded.
“Each time you fold it you are increasing exponentially the amount of voltage you are creating,” Sepulveda said. “You can start with a large device, but when you fold it once, and again, and again, it’s now much smaller and has more energy. Now it may be small enough to put in a specially made heel of your shoe so it creates power each time your heel strikes the ground.”
Sepulveda and his team are developing technology that would transmit the power generated from the heel strike to, say, a wireless headset.
New research at Michigan State University and published in the current issue of Nature Communications shows how Geobacter bacteria grow as films on electrodes and generate electricity – a process that’s ready to be scaled up to industrial levels.
The thick biofilm, a gelatin microbial dynamo of sorts, is a combination of cells loaded with cytochromes, metal-based proteins, and pili, hairlike protein filaments discovered and patented by MSU’s Gemma Reguera, associate professor of microbiology.
The biofilms are comparable to an electrical grid. Each cell is a power plant, generating electrical discharges that are delivered to the underlying electrode using a network of cytochromes and pili. The cytochromes are the transformers and towers supplying electricity to the city. The pili represent the sparse-but-mighty powerlines that connect the towers, even those far away from the power plant, to the grid.
Cytochromes and pili work together for shorter ranges – the first 10 layers of cells or so closest to the electrode. As more cells stack on the electrode, the efficiency of the cytochrome as electron carrier diminishes, and the pili do all of the work – discharging electrons 1,000 times faster than normal.
“The pili do all of the work after the first 10 layers, and allow the cells to continue to grow on the electrode, sometimes beyond 200 cell layers, while generating electricity,” said Reguera, who co-published the paper with MSU graduate student Rebecca Steidl and MSU postdoctoral student Sanela Lampa-Pastirk, who work in Reguera’s lab. “This is the first study to show how electrons can travel such long distances across thick biofilms; the pili are truly like powerlines, at the nanoscale.”
The cytochromes lose their transfer speed once they get farther away. Without the wires, you can’t continue to grow the biofilm on the electrode, she added.
The methodical approach to dissect the contribution and interactions between the cytochromes and the pili was the key to this discovery. The researchers used a genetic approach to eliminate key electron carriers in the biofilms, cytochromes and conductive pili, and studied the effect of the mutations in the growth of the biofilm and ability to generate electricity. They also constructed a mutant that produced pili with reduced conductivity.
“We used the mutants to grow biofilms of precise thickness and capacity to produce electricity,” Reguera said. “This information allows us to reconstruct the paths – cytochromes or pili – used by the cells to discharge electrons across the biofilm and to the underlying electrode.”
How the biofilm is mechanistically stratified as it grows in thickness on the electrode without compromising electricity generation was a revelation.
“We went from constructing the cell equivalent of a 10-story building to a 15- and a 20-story building and demonstrated the coordinated action of cytochromes and pili in the bottom floors and the need to discharge electrons via the wires in the upper floors to grid,” Reguera said. “We know that we can build 200-story buildings, which really opens up opportunities for which these biofilms can be used.”
In their natural state, microbes have a taste for waste, she added. Reguera’s bioelectrodes also have a big appetite for waste and are ready to be scaled up and used to cleanup industrial sites while producing electricity as a byproduct. The next phase of this research will explore potential spinoff company options to bring the bioelectrodes to market.
Michigan State University (MSU) is a public research university located in East Lansing, Michigan, United States and is the first land-grant institution that was created to serve as a model for future land-grant colleges in the country under the 1862 Morrill Act.
MSU pioneered the studies of packaging, hospitality business, supply chain management, and telecommunication.
Following the introduction of the Morrill Act, the college became coeducational and expanded its curriculum beyond agriculture. Today, MSU is the ninth-largest university in the United States (in terms of enrollment), with 49,300 students (2013–14) and 2,954 faculty members.
The Latest Updated Research News:
Michigan State University research articles from Innovation Toronto
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- Newly Discovered Organic Nanowires Leave Manmade Technologies in Their Dust – March 24, 2016
- MSU Discovers a New Kind of Stem Cell – March 5, 2016
- Evolving Artificial Intelligence – February 8, 2016
- UMD-led study identifies the off switch for biofilm formation – August 24, 2015
- Quenching the thirst for clean, safe water – April 30, 2015
- World’s challenges demand science changes — and fast – February 27, 2015
- Some Scientists Share Better than Others – October 23, 2014
- Solar Energy That Doesn’t Block the View – October 21, 2014
- Experts close to perfect in determining truth in interrogations using active question methods – August 21, 2014
- Solar energy that doesn’t block the view – August 20, 2014
- New, fossil-fuel-free process makes biodiesel sustainable – May 21, 2014
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UB research part of study arc to determine why this is happening
Rapidly advancing technology has created ever more realistic video games. Images are sharp, settings have depth and detail, and the audio is crisp and authentic. At a glance, it appears real. So real, that research has consistently found that gamers feel guilty committing unjustified acts of violence within the game.
Now, a new University at Buffalo-led study suggests that the moral response produced by the initial exposure to a video game decreases as experience with the game develops.
The findings provide the first experimental evidence that repeatedly playing the same violent game reduces emotional responses — like guilt — not only to the original game, but to other violent video games as well.
Yet why this is happening remains a mystery, according to Matthew Grizzard, assistant professor of communication and principal investigator of the study published in current issue of the journal “Media Psychology,” with co-authors Ron Tamborini and John L. Sherry of Michigan State University and René Weber of the University of California Santa Barbara.
“What’s underlying this finding?” asks Grizzard. “Why do games lose their ability to elicit guilt, and why does this seemingly generalize to other, similar games?”
Grizzard, an expert in the psychological effects of media entertainment, has previously studied the ability of violent video games to elicit guilt. The current study builds upon that work.
Gamers often claim their actions in a video game are as meaningless to the real world as players capturing pawns on a chess board. Yet, previous research by Grizzard and others shows that immoral virtual actions can elicit higher levels of guilt than moral virtual actions. This finding would seem to contradict claims that virtual actions are completely divorced from the real world. Grizzard’s team wanted to replicate their earlier research and determine whether gamers’ claims that their virtual actions are meaningless actually reflects desensitization processes.
Although the findings of his study suggest that desensitization occurs, mechanisms underlying these findings are not entirely clear.
He says there are two arguments for the desensitization effect.
“One is that people are deadened because they’ve played these games over and over again,” he says. “This makes the gamers less sensitive to all guilt-inducing stimuli.”
The second argument is a matter of tunnel vision.
“This is the idea that gamers see video games differently than non-gamers, and this differential perception develops with repeated play.”
Non-gamers look at a particular game and process all that’s happening. For the non-gamer, the intensity of the scene trumps the strategies required to succeed. But gamers ignore much of the visual information in a scene as this information can be meaningless to their success in a game, according to Grizzard.
“This second argument says the desensitization we’re observing is not due to being numb to violence because of repeated play, but rather because the gamers’ perception has adapted and started to see the game’s violence differently.”
“Through repeated play, gamers may come to understand the artificiality of the environment and disregard the apparent reality provided by the game’s graphics.”
Grizzard say his future research is working toward answering these questions.
“This study is part of an overarching framework that I’ve been looking at in terms of the extent to which media can elicit moral emotions, like guilt, disgust and anger,” he says.
Here’s the scientific dirt: Soil can help reduce global warming
“We can substantially reduce atmospheric carbon by using soil. Decreasing greenhouse gas emissions, sequestering carbon and using prudent agricultural management practices that tighten the soil-nitrogen cycle can yield enhanced soil fertility, bolster crop productivity, improve soil biodiversity, and reduce erosion, runoff and water pollution. These practices also buffer crop and pasture systems against the impacts of climate change.
New formula for fast, abundant H2 production may help power fuel cells, helps explain expansive chemical-eating microbial communities of the deep
Scientists in Lyon, a French city famed for its cuisine, have discovered a quick-cook recipe for copious volumes of hydrogen (H2).
The breakthrough suggests a better way of producing the hydrogen that propels rockets and energizes battery-like fuel cells. In a few decades, it could even help the world meet key energy needs — without carbon emissions contributing to the greenhouse effect and climate change.
It also has profound implications for the abundance and distribution of life, helping to explain the astonishingly widespread microbial communities that dine on hydrogen deep beneath the continents and seafloor.
Describing how to greatly speed up nature’s process for producing hydrogen will be a highlight among many presentations by Deep Carbon Observatory (DCO) experts at the American Geophysical Union’s annual Fall Meeting in San Francisco Dec. 9 to 13.
The DCO is a global, 10-year international science collaboration unraveling the mysteries of Earth’s inner workings — deep life, energy, chemistry, and fluid movements.
Muriel Andreani, Isabelle Daniel, and Marion Pollet-Villard of University Claude Bernard Lyon 1 discovered the quick recipe for producing hydrogen:
In a microscopic high-pressure cooker called a diamond anvil cell (within a tiny space about as wide as a pencil lead), combine ingredients: aluminum oxide, water, and the mineral olivine. Set at 200 to 300 degrees Celsius and 2 kilobars pressure — comparable to conditions found at twice the depth of the deepest ocean. Cook for 24 hours. And voilà.
Dr. Daniel, a DCO leader, explains that scientists have long known nature’s way of producing hydrogen. When water meets the ubiquitous mineral olivine under pressure, the rock reacts with oxygen (O) atoms from the H2O, transforming olivine into another mineral, serpentine — characterized by a scaly, green-brown surface appearance like snake skin. Olivine is a common yellow to yellow-green mineral made of magnesium, iron, silicon, and oxygen.
The process also leaves hydrogen (H2) molecules divorced from their marriage with oxygen atoms in water.
The novelty in the discovery, quietly published in a summer edition of the journal American Mineralogist, is how aluminum profoundly accelerates and impacts the process.
Finding the reaction completed in the diamond-enclosed micro space overnight, instead of over months as expected, left the scientists amazed. The experiments produced H2 some 7 to 50 times faster than the natural “serpentinization” of olivine.
Over decades, many teams looking to achieve this same quick hydrogen result focused mainly on the role of iron within the olivine, Dr. Andreani says. Introducing aluminum into the hot, high-pressure mix produced the eureka moment.
Dr. Daniel notes that aluminum is Earth’s 5th most abundant element and usually is present, therefore, in the natural serpentinization process. The experiment introduced a quantity of aluminum unrealistic in nature.
Jesse Ausubel, of The Rockefeller University and a founder of the DCO program, says current methods for commercial hydrogen production for fuel cells or to power rockets “usually involve the conversion of methane (CH4), a process that produces the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide (CO2) as a byproduct. Alternatively, we can split water molecules at temperatures of 850 degrees Celsius or more — and thus need lots of energy and extra careful engineering.”
“Aluminum’s ability to catalyze hydrogen production at a much lower temperature could make an enormous difference. The cost and risk of the process would drop a lot.”
“Scaling this up to meet global energy needs in a carbon-free way would probably require 50 years,” he adds. “But a growing market for hydrogen in fuel cells could help pull the process into the market.”
“We still need to solve problems for a hydrogen economy, such as storing the hydrogen efficiently as a gas in compact containers, or optimizing methods to turn it into a metal, as pioneered by Russell Hemley of the Carnegie Institution’s Geophysical Laboratory, another co-founder of the DCO.”
Deep energy, Dr. Hemley notes, is typically thought of in terms of geothermal energy available from heat deep within Earth, as well as subterranean fluids that can be burned for energy, such as methane and petroleum. What may strike some as new is that there is also chemical energy in the form of hydrogen produced by serpentinization.
At the time of the AGU Fall Meetings, Dr. Andreani will be taking a lead role with Javier Escartin of the Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique in a 40-member international scientific exploration of fault lines along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. It is a place where the African and American continents continue to separate at an annual rate of about 20 mm (1.5 inches) and rock is forced up from the mantle only 4 to 6 km (2.5 to 3.7 miles) below the thin ocean floor crust. The study will advance several DCO goals, including the mapping of world regions where deep life-supporting H2 is released through serpentinization.
Aboard the French vessel Pourquoi Pas?, using a deep sea robot from the French Research Institute for Exploitation of the Sea (IFREMER), and a deep-sea vehicle from Germany’s Leibniz Institute of Marine Sciences (GEOMAR), the team includes researchers from France, Germany, USA, Wales, Spain, Norway and Greece (more information: odemar.weebly.com).
Notes Dr. Daniel, until now it has been a scientific mystery how the rock + water + pressure formula produces enough hydrogen to support the chemical-loving microbial and other forms of life abounding in the hostile environments of the deep.
With the results of the experiment in France, “for the first time we understand why and how we have H2 produced at such a fast rate. When you take into account aluminum, you are able to explain the amount of life flourishing on hydrogen,” says Dr. Daniel.
Indeed, DCO scientists hypothesize that hydrogen was what fed the earliest life on primordial planet Earth — first life’s first food.
And, she adds: “We believe the serpentinization process may be underway on many planetary bodies — notably Mars. The reaction may take one day or one million years but it will occur whenever and wherever there is some water present to react with olivine — one of the most abundant minerals in the solar system.”
Enigmatic evidence of a deep subterranean microbe network
Meanwhile, the genetic makeup of Earth’s deep microbial life is being revealed through DCO research underway by Matt Schrenk of Michigan State University, head of DCO’s “Rock-Hosted Communities” initiative, Tom McCollom of the University of Colorado, Boulder, Steve D’Hondt of the University of Rhode Island, and many other associates.
At AGU, they will report the results of deep sampling from opposite sides of the world, revealing enigmatic evidence of a deep subterranean microbe network.
Using DNA, researchers are finding hydrogen-metabolizing microbes in rock fractures deep beneath the North American and European continents that are highly similar to samples a Princeton University group obtained from deep rock fractures 4 to 5 km (2.5 to 3 miles) down a Johannesburg-area mine shaft. These DNA sequences are also highly similar to those of microbes in the rocky seabeds off the North American northwest and northeastern Japanese coasts.
“Two years ago we had a scant idea about what microbes are present in subsurface rocks or what they eat,” says Dr. Schrenk. “Since then a number of studies have vastly expanded that database. We’re getting this emerging picture not only of what sort of organisms are found in these systems but some consistency between sites globally — we’re seeing the same types of organisms everywhere we look.”
“It is easy to understand how birds or fish might be similar oceans apart, but it challenges the imagination to think of nearly identical microbes 16,000 km apart from each other in the cracks of hard rock at extreme depths, pressures, and temperatures” he says.
“In some deep places, such as deep-sea hydrothermal vents, the environment is highly dynamic and promotes prolific biological communities,” says Dr. McCollom. “In others, such as the deep fractures, the systems are isolated with a low diversity of microbes capable of surviving such harsh conditions.”
“The collection and coupling of microbiological and geochemical data made possible through the Deep Carbon Observatory is helping us understand and describe these phenomena.”
How water behaves deep within Earth’s mantle
Among other major presentations, DCO investigators will introduce a new model that offers new insights into water / rock interactions at extreme pressures 150 km (93 miles) or more below the surface, well into Earth’s upper mantle. To now, most models have been limited to 15 km, one-tenth the depth.
“The DCO gives a happy twist to the phrase ‘We are in deep water’,” says researcher Dimitri Sverjensky of Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore MD.
Dr. Sverjensky’s work, accepted for publication by the Elsevier journal Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta, is expected to revolutionize understanding of deep Earth water chemistry and its impacts on subsurface processes as diverse as diamond formation, hydrogen accumulation, the transport of diverse carbon-, nitrogen- and sulfur-fed species in the mantle, serpentinization, mantle degassing, and the origin of Earth’s atmosphere.
In deep Earth, despite extreme high temperatures and pressures, water is a fluid that circulates and reacts chemically with the rocks through which it passes, changing the minerals in them and undergoing alteration itself — a key agent for transporting carbon and other chemical elements. Understanding what water is like and how it behaves in Earth’s deep interior is fundamental to understanding the deep carbon cycle, deep life, and deep energy.
This water-rock interaction produces valuable ore deposits, creates the chemicals on which deep life and deep energy depend, influences the generation of magma that erupts from volcanoes — even the occurrence of earthquakes. Humanity gets glimpses of this water in hot springs.
Says Dr. Sverjensky: “The new model may enable us to predict water-rock interaction well into Earth upper mantle and help visualize where on Earth H2 production might be underway.”